Sunday, 19 July 2009

Does the God exists - Part 2

Way back in 2003, I had a discussion with some intellects on the topic if God exists or not. I felt my urge to put in the my opinion on the discussion over here. For the sake of readability, I am rewording the discussion. I have tried to be honest with the opinions from the opposite benches.
The discussion started, when somebody popped the question, does anything like the God exist?
My opinion was that I don't feel if there is anything like that has ever existed! This is a name given by the people to reason the questions they could not answer with logic/ science/ knowledge/ observations. People define God as a supreme spiritual power which controls everything in the universe. So, had there been an entity like GOD, there won't have been evils anywhere.
My last statement was bound to bring reaction. A believer countered "Had there been any entity like God, there wouldn't have been evils anywhere" is the biggest factor which makes many people doubt the existence of God. For getting the perfect answer you will have to study Atma, Parmatma and Prakriti. The purpose of God behind making this universe. A small example from "Atma, Parmatma and Prakriti" study:
"Jeev karm karne me swatantra hai. Karm ke aadhar par phal milega." (Every living being is free to work independently, he fate is decided on the basis of his work by God.). This world is just like an examination hall. Students are free to write anything. If a student writes something wrong the teacher will not tell him the correct answer. If he does so it will be injustice to other students. All the students will get marks as per their answers. Similarly, God does not interfere but gives reward or punishment as per our deeds.
I have an argument against this. If God does so, He is the worst entity. To prove Himself, He plays with so many creatures existing in the nature. I always believe that punishing is not a natural solution to evils, the natural solution is to correct the error. By doing so the concept of God does not abide to the natural laws. Hence the God does not exist in my opinion.
The only superpower is nature. Do abide by the natural laws. The is the way to live.
Another believer supported his fellow believer by treating God as special entity. He said that it is with our limited analytical knowledge we talk about God punishing or rewarding. For him adjectives do not apply nor do the laws of nature as they do to us ordinary human beings, because nature is created by Him, not vice-versa. He stated a so called true about renowned scientist Albert Einstein. "Einstein had a friend who was atheist. One day he came to Einstien's house and there was a beautiful model of solar system on the top of the table. His friend asked him who made this. Einstein replied, do you think that this was made by itself? Friend replied no. On this Einstein said, 'Our solar system is much more beautiful than this model and there must be some power who created it, that power is God'. His friend had to believe in that power after this incident."
You have all the knowledge about everything inside you. Observe yourself and you will get knowledge from doing that. It is not an easy task. It takes time. If you want some more explanation, read Gita. I am sure you will have answers to your question in Gita.
This idea is very practical and some scripture knowledge goes a long way in helping us under stand what is God.
For me He is given that special status even above the Nature, is the reason to the core of my argument. It is fine to have a faith, but we distort the facts. If argue that the solar system is part of nature and the power believers attributed to their God via Einstein's statement are trying to distort the facts. I have doubts to the level if he really said so? I treat such stories to which do not have documented proof as part of folk. Such things keep on creeping up as long as things goes. I state an example - Some close aide of Late Princess Diana of UK has said that she predicted her death. Now I say about someone known to me that he predicted 11 Sept attacks on US. It is sheer rubbish to state such things. Unless and until you witness and reason them.
Further even if Einstein had said so, it could have been his opinion. But that opinion does not settle the debate.
I feel that God is only a belief to cover and justify the things we can't reason. That's it. But really when we reason we will find that everything in the world can be reasoned through natural laws.
What I believe is that we should NOT fear the entity God- we should fear from ourself, so that we don't do the wrongs.
Again we should not leave anything to Him - we should do it our-self, because He doesn't exist.

4 comments:

Gaurav said...

The existance of god is not only for the things we can't reason out. God is there to make a person feel that there's someone above him/her. Otherwise, he will start believing that he is the supreme force and his thoughts and decisions are what should be final. The feeling of under the god makes a person think: think about the things he has been doing. It is just as we have parents in our childhood days whom we look upon for the right answer; similarly we look upon god when we are in doubt, when we can't find the way.
We all will become orphan without his existance!

Deepak Srivastava said...

Existence of god is just another state of mind, which a person keeps to satisfy and make him understand, keep patience in worse conditions which he/she is unable to outcome/solve or he/she don't want to do so. We are feed up from the beginning for this, this is an inherited information from our ancestors which is working this way and we too keep on using the same without having our own thoughts.

In fact, what I think is if God has ever created the mankind and creatures(lets suppose), we are just puppets and nothing else, this also means that we are not free to do anything, but in practicality it doesn't happen.

And if we believe the fact that God has done any damn thing yet, then here comes the rule that the creator can be itself the destruct-or, and this also means that we can't do anything by ourselves, which is not true and hence disagree with the fact that God exist.

I am also the follower of 4th opinion stated in the previous post.

God is just like a tremendous consolation for human beings, but this is false, and to the fact that a lie told thousands and thousands of times becomes truth, and this has happened over years.
In fact lies are more attractive and sweeter than truth if we consider the real world,but opposite is in the case of truth, which proves bitter in beginning and sweeter at the end, human tendency is to get attracted by lies.

Although there are various areas where human has not yet explored and is unaware, but those are just because human mind takes a significant amount of time to develop an idea, analyze and proof it.

I would like to refer a quote of Buddha

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

--Deepak

Shajee said...

Interesting discussion guys ... does God exists or not. I think this debate is as old as the creator itself ... every high level creations with intelligence after a certain time discards it's own creator. (as our sci-fi movies predict our fate at the hands of machines ironically our own creation ... fiction)

I see two points in this discussion
1. If God exists then why there is so much evil and negative things happening, is HE not in control.
Answer is He has given us the control (through Mind and Consiousness and reasoning)
(remember the famous Barber story on if God exists)
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/archive/index.php/t-152544.html

2. Humans being puppet in hands of God. If it were true then Humanity wouldn't have had achieved where it stands now (also consider the other side of coin)

yes indeed believing in God is a tricky and difficult thing.
You do pray and sometimes they get answered (some co-incidence).
Something you dont see but believe. (I do believe that most of intellectuals have brains although I donot see it, but I do see signs of the existence of their brains)

The other theory is the exam theory what if it is true, what if you will be questioned for what you did...well isnt it a big chance to take given that you have one life and you never know where you end up in the next one ??

There was some reference of Bhagwat Gita too. I think yes these books and scriptures give insight into the spirituality of your being.
Read The vedas, The Gita, The Bible or The Quran and you would surely get some sense that these are definitely not books from another fellow earthling.
You will encounter The truth, only truth nothing but the truth.

Somebody said these line ...

"As you sow, so shall you Reap.
There's but Heaven and there's Hell, wait till you die and you shall see."

But I do believe in one thing, Atheist, Believer, Non-Believer or Agnostics everybody do get a moment in life when he can feel Gods presence.

Deepak Srivastava said...

In reply to previous comment,

If we are considering the western philosophy to compare with our beliefs and thoughts, then its not fair. There is big difference in thoughts of Western and Eastern philosophy. I am mentioning this because you referred to sci-fi movies related to man & machines, and YES I still agree to the fact that the creator has full control over the created unless they are designed in a way to gain control to themselves.

I agree to the fact that there is ultimately the truth that exists and this is what I stated in my comment.

If we are referring about religious books(The Gita, The Vedas...) then let me tell you something more interesting:

Truth is, in my opinion, what is supposed to know the eternal existence of man, a living being, which means going deep inside himself, where the truth lies, there is no such external reference where we can go out to find the same. Everything lies in the deep cores of our mind, all we need to do is to activate that untouched part.

Prayer is just another thing that a human being does for which he thinks is incapable of executing by himself.

I believe nature is the ultimate super power and nature cannot be amended; it has to be accepted. There is no way to be otherwise. Whosoever you are, whatsoever you are, that's how you are -- that's what you are. It is a great acceptance.
Buddha calls it tathata, a great acceptance.